48 replies to this topic

[Erick]

Trying to be slightly optimistic here...

Anyway, we have a bunch of young pitchers who throw strikes and a good defensive team behind them.

The Marlins, for years, have been really bad at certain spots, defensively. We've been consistently terrible at 3B, for example. Escobar, assuming he stays, is an upgrade over years past.

Hechevarria is apparently a stud, defensively.

In the outfield, we're no longer forcing infielders to learn how to play the outfield. Ruggiano is a fine CF'er and an upgrade over years trying to see if Coghlan and Bonifacio could handle the position.

Pierre isn't a + anymore out there, but anyone is better than Morrison.

With the young pitchers we have, this should help their development.

Even coming through the system, Marisnick projects to be a + in CF, Yelich will probably be a + in LF considering he's proven to be capable/athletic enough to handle CF, himself.

Maybe the front office is trying to really improve defensively this time instead of just saying they take pride in building teams around pitching/defense?

Even with the recent swap of crappy, overpaid catchers, they took on the better defensive catcher in Mathis. Dating back to last year, they acquired Gorkys Hernandez.

While some of these guys are unlikely to ever hit, it's nice to see the organization improving, defensively. I feel like it's played a part in our losing over the past couple of years.

[squall]

Nah.<br />

[Dr Beinfest]

Try to be optimists lol f*** off Erick.

[Erick]

Well, I was just trying to be nice!

[Valyekrin]

The biggest problem last year wasn't hitting or defense... it was offense. None of the prospects we got in return are regarded as high level offensive prospects, we can have the best defensive team in the league, if we can't score any runs we are still going to lose.

[Erick]

The biggest problem last year wasn't hitting or defense... it was offense. None of the prospects we got in return are regarded as high level offensive prospects, we can have the best defensive team in the league, if we can't score any runs we are still going to lose.

The biggest problem last year was everything.

It just so happens that bad offense is more noticeable than bad defense, but they both sucked.

[el penguino]

How many of these position players are going to be worth building around? Pierre will be 35 and is under a 1-year deal (not to mention that he has no arm). As a whole, Hechevarria will likely suck and not become the perennial all-star Samson says he will be (in fact he's probably not a starting player at all). Same probably goes for Marisnick--decent defense sure, but the sh*tty bat will make him not worth anything. And Mathis just sucks. And who knows how long Escobar will stay around.

There are really few pieces worth building a core around. Stanton obviously. Logan has to prove that he's not a bust and Ruggiano needs to prove that 2012 wasn't a fluke. Other than that, you have to wait until Yelich is ready--last I heard he projects to be an average defender.

[dim]

Where's the pitching part?

[Erick]

How many of these position players are going to be worth building around? Pierre will be 35 and is under a 1-year deal (not to mention that he has no arm). As a whole, Hechevarria will likely suck and not become the perennial all-star Samson says he will be (in fact he's probably not a starting player at all). Same probably goes for Marisnick--decent defense sure, but the sh*tty bat will make him not worth anything. And Mathis just sucks. And who knows how long Escobar will stay around.

There are really few pieces worth building a core around. Stanton obviously. Logan has to prove that he's not a bust and Ruggiano needs to prove that 2012 wasn't a fluke. Other than that, you have to wait until Yelich is ready--last I heard he projects to be an average defender.

Whether or not they're core pieces is unknown but it seems rather clear that the front office sees Hechevarria, Marisnick and Yelich, at the very least, as core pieces.

[Erick]

Where's the pitching part?

Turner, Alvarez, Eovaldi
Fernandez, Nicolino, Conley, etc. in the minors

Tough to predict how young, unproven pitchers are going to pan out but we definitely have very young pitching with some potential.

[el penguino]

How many of these position players are going to be worth building around? Pierre will be 35 and is under a 1-year deal (not to mention that he has no arm). As a whole, Hechevarria will likely suck and not become the perennial all-star Samson says he will be (in fact he's probably not a starting player at all). Same probably goes for Marisnick--decent defense sure, but the sh*tty bat will make him not worth anything. And Mathis just sucks. And who knows how long Escobar will stay around.

There are really few pieces worth building a core around. Stanton obviously. Logan has to prove that he's not a bust and Ruggiano needs to prove that 2012 wasn't a fluke. Other than that, you have to wait until Yelich is ready--last I heard he projects to be an average defender.

Whether or not they're core pieces is unknown but it seems rather clear that the front office sees Hechevarria, Marisnick and Yelich, at the very least, as core pieces.

Samson might say that, but I wouldn't give that too much weight yet. Beinfest and Hill could conceivably consider most of those pieces as just being filler for the time being. Remember that they dumped a lot of payroll. They have the new ballpark revenue so they will probably start reinvesting again even if they don't go crazy this offseason.

I think that most rational baseball minds don't expect Hechevarria or Marisnick to develop into solid everyday players.

I would guess that their basically strategy is just to find filler right now and don't expect a lot of these new acquisitions to be part of a long-term core.

[Erick]

How many of these position players are going to be worth building around? Pierre will be 35 and is under a 1-year deal (not to mention that he has no arm). As a whole, Hechevarria will likely suck and not become the perennial all-star Samson says he will be (in fact he's probably not a starting player at all). Same probably goes for Marisnick--decent defense sure, but the sh*tty bat will make him not worth anything. And Mathis just sucks. And who knows how long Escobar will stay around.

There are really few pieces worth building a core around. Stanton obviously. Logan has to prove that he's not a bust and Ruggiano needs to prove that 2012 wasn't a fluke. Other than that, you have to wait until Yelich is ready--last I heard he projects to be an average defender.

Whether or not they're core pieces is unknown but it seems rather clear that the front office sees Hechevarria, Marisnick and Yelich, at the very least, as core pieces.

Samson might say that, but I wouldn't give that too much weight yet. Beinfest and Hill could conceivably consider most of those pieces as just being filler for the time being. Remember that they dumped a lot of payroll. They have the new ballpark revenue so they will probably start reinvesting again even if they don't go crazy this offseason.

I think that most rational baseball minds don't expect Hechevarria or Marisnick to develop into solid everyday players.

I would guess that their basically strategy is just to find filler right now and don't expect a lot of these new acquisitions to be part of a long-term core.

I don't see them re-investing much anytime soon.

I expect Hechevarria to get a significant opportunity. It's already been reported that he's going to be the team's SS on Opening Day. He might not be a good hitter, but you have to remember that this is the same organization that gave Emilio Bonifacio significant playing time when he was nowhere near ready.

Marisnick is definitely a part of their future plans. Scouts say he's a 5-tool player. The Marlins just traded their whole team and Marisnick was the best part of the deal coming back. I doubt they think of Marisnick as just some stopgap or something. He'll be in CF starting sometime in 2014 unless he completely flops in the minors or something.

[el penguino]

Oh, sure, Hechevarria and Marisnick will probably get a fair amount of playing time but I expect both of them to struggle offensively and not amount to much in overall value going forward. In other words, I'm pretty confident they will be busts.

And I'm not sure what scouts you are reading, but BA acknowledges that there are some serious questions about Marisnick's bat. So does BP.

And what makes you rule out the possibility of the Marlins making some signings next offseason (not necessary of the Reyes caliber)? It's not like their revenue is holding them back like it had in the past. They dumped these contracts not really because the revenues were low, but because they realized that most of them were overvalued and the whole team was not presently in the position to win.

[Valyekrin]

Oh, sure, Hechevarria and Marisnick will probably get a fair amount of playing time but I expect both of them to struggle offensively and not amount to much in overall value going forward. In other words, I'm pretty confident they will be busts.

And I'm not sure what scouts you are reading, but BA acknowledges that there are some serious questions about Marisnick's bat.

And what makes you rule out the possibility of the Marlins making some signings next offseason (not necessary of the Reyes caliber)? It's not like their revenue is holding them back like it had in the past. They dumped these contracts not really because the revenues were low, but because they realized that most of them were overvalued and the whole team was not presently in the position to win.

That's my big issues with these players as well, its great that they are wonderful defensively, but how much can they really contribute if they can't make an impact offensively?

[Erick]

Oh, sure, Hechevarria and Marisnick will probably get a fair amount of playing time but I expect both of them to struggle offensively and not amount to much in overall value going forward. In other words, I'm pretty confident they will be busts.

And I'm not sure what scouts you are reading, but BA acknowledges that there are some serious questions about Marisnick's bat.

And what makes you rule out the possibility of the Marlins making some signings next offseason (not necessary of the Reyes caliber)? It's not like their revenue is holding them back like it had in the past. They dumped these contracts not really because the revenues were low, but because they realized that most of them were overvalued and the whole team was not presently in the position to win.

http://baseballprospectnation.com/2012/07/04/scouting-report-jake-marisnick-of/

http://www.scoutingbook.com/players/p2610

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2012/1/2/2675968/jake-marisnick-scouting-report

A few links in regards to Marisnick. He's definitely the player with the most upside coming back in the deal. I obviously understand why you're skeptical because I see the same #'s, but everything I've read says something along the lines of 5-tools or great athlete.

As for spending money, I wouldn't rule out the possibility, but I'm also not counting on it. Quite frankly, at this point, I'm hoping they don't spend, anyway; after what they've done, the only way they'll get a relevant free agent to come here is by overpaying.

[el penguino]

They say that Marisnick has the potential to be a 5 tool player is you are optimistic about the offense. I think that realistically speaking, that claim is a reach. I read another piece from BP somewhere that basically said that his pitch selection sucks (in addition to his swing mechanics) and that his offensive game could bring down his whole "package."

When Fernandez are Yelich are ready (with Stanton, Turner, maybe Morrison and Ruggiano in place), I could definitely see them playing the free agent market because they will have the resources to do so. I don't expect them to go all-in next year (do something stupid like sign a closer), but I think they will likely begin to fine tune the core.

[Erick]

And I could definitely see them trading Stanton for more prospects.
At this point, I don't trust them to spend money on this team. Not only because they're cheap but because the one time they did spend, it did not work. I don't know if they're bullshitting for PR purposes, but it honestly seems like they believe they can win regardless of how much they spend.

If you win, woohoo. If you lose, you lose cheap. Win-win situation for them. I think we're better off getting used to these guys because we'll be disappointed if we expect more.

[el penguino]

I'd like to think that they plan on trying to negotiate a contract extension by the spring. If that doesn't happen (could either be that Stanton wants too much or simply wants out), then they'll trade him in his arbitration years.

[squall]

This sounds so f***ing stupid. Trading Stanton for prospects...for f***s sake. You don't trade young homegrown studs before they play for you through their mid twenties. You sign them young, cheap and for a long time. Then you trade them for a kings ransom before free agency.

I hate these assholes. They aren't going to build a fan base like this.

[Entendu101]

Marisnick and Hechavarria are pieces to build a team around. I don't know what you guys are talking about...

[Hotcorner]

Marisnick only had a half season at AA, we'll see how he does in Jax this year.

I may as well get season tix for the Suns, should be a lot of guys to watch.

[poptart]

Marisnick only had a half season at AA, we'll see how he does in Jax this year.

I may as well get season tix for the Suns, should be a lot of guys to watch.

hell yeah!
I don't think I went to any games last year because there wasn't much to see. this season should be fun.

[Eddie Altamonte]

Hechavarria projects to be the Marlins SS for the next 10 years if you believe what the scouts are saying about him now.(My belief is that We could have done much better) His glove is gold calibre and should become a good hitter in time. Marisnick is an excellent prospect who's bat should be now starting to come alive. Per projections should be ready sometime in 2014 to takeover CF. They both have outstanding speed and defensively are a cut above most everyone else. Is Hechavarria a field no-hit SS?... Will Marisnick ever be able to hit major league pitching? Those are their main questions right now

[dom2613]

Where's the pitching part?

Turner, Alvarez, Eovaldi
Fernandez, Nicolino, Conley, etc. in the minors

Tough to predict how young, unproven pitchers are going to pan out but we definitely have very young pitching with some potential.

Plus that stud Anderson Perez. Samson said he's gonna be good.

[Jokersgoon]

Ok guys we get it Samson messed up his name.. Enough.